[Mpi-21] TODO - AUTHORS of MPI-2.1 - Workplan

Mon Apr 7 13:36:58 CDT 2008

MPI-1 included the bindings issues / rationale information in an early  
chapter because it provides the basis behind the bindings presented in  
the rest of the document.  I still think that that's a good idea  
(e.g., all of functions are MPI_<foo>, in C++ we have these basic  
classes, etc.).

I think it would read pretty weird if you read the whole MPI-2.1  
document and then in the last chapter you see "here's why all the  
bindings are the way that they are".

That's why I proposed that this stuff be moved into a [new] chapter 3  
-- keep the information at the beginning of the document, but it's now  
big enough to be its own chapter.

My $0.02.  :-)

On Apr 7, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Bronis R. de Supinski wrote:
>
> Jeff:
>
> I agree with most of your proposal.
>
> If stuff is wrong/outdated in Chapter 2, then it should be fixed.
>
> If stuff in Chapter 2 really belongs in a Language Bindings chapter,
> then it should be moved.
>
> However, I see no reason to make the language bindings chapter so
> early in the standard. In fact, I agree with Rolf's suggestion
> that it would be most appropriate as the last chapter, right
> before the appendix that lists the actual bindings. As Rolf
> suggested, we should make it chapter 14 and make the profiling
> interface chapter 13. Making it chapter 3 does not make sense.
>
> Bronis
>
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Apr 2008, Jeff Squyres wrote:
>
>> The problem is that the text about language bindings is fairly
>> disjoint between chapters 2 and 13.  Indeed, chapter 13 is redundant
>> and out of order / inconsistent with regards to MPI-1 text in some
>> places *because* MPI-2 was a separate document.
>>
>> What about a slightly different proposal:
>>
>> 1. Move some of the existing Chapter 13/Language Bindings text into
>> the relevant parts in the rest of the 2.1 doc (e.g., move the C++
>> communicators discussion to the Right place in Chapter 5/Groups,
>> Contexts, Comms).
>>
>> 2. Make a new chapter 3: Language Bindings.  Put in it:
>>    - All C/Fortran language bindings text from Chapter 2/Terms&Conv
>>    - All remaining text from Chapter 13/Language bindings
>>
>> 3. Remove the [now empty] Chapter 13
>>
>>
>> On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:48 AM, Rolf Rabenseifner wrote:
>>> About Chap. 13, especially C++.
>>>
>>> I'm proposing (referencec to MPI-2.1 Draft Apr.1, 2008):
>>>
>>> - The MPI-2 Forum decided to put only small overview stuff into
>>> Chap. 2 Terms.
>>> (I want to recall, that in MPI-2 the Terms are rewritten for whole
>>> MPI,
>>> i.e., still valid in MPI-2.1)
>>> - The MPI-2 Forum decided to put all deeper information into
>>> extra sections of an additionally last chapter on Bindings.
>>> - The MPI-2 Forum already decided that normal C++ bindings
>>> should be after the Fortran bindings.
>>>
>>> - Terms, page 18, lines 36-39 clearly expresses, that all constants
>>> are
>>> given only in MPI_ notation and that C++ names (with MPI::)
>>> are given in Annex A.
>>> I.e., MPI_COMM_WORLD, MPI_FLOAT, MPI_PROC_NULL, ... should not
>>> to be translated everywhere in the chapters.
>>> Same for Table 3.2 on page 27.
>>>
>>> - There are important things were C++ clearly differs from C,
>>> e.g. the handling of the Status.
>>> I have already added the Status handling, see page 31 lines 23-32.
>>> (By the way, this information was missing in Chap. 13.1 and only
>>> available in the Annex A.)
>>>
>>> - I'm not aware, whether there are more such stuff, that is  
>>> explained
>>> for C and Fortran and should be also explained for C++.
>>> Do you see an additional stuff like status?
>>>
>>> - I do not expect that it would be a good idee to move all the ugly
>>> Fortran problems (17 pages) to the beginning of thee book into
>>> Chap. 2 Terms.
>>> I would recommend same rule for C++ (12 pages).
>>> Chap.2 terms has only 16 pages - with 2 pages dedicated to Fortran,
>>> 1/2 page to C, and 3 pages to C++.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Rolf
>>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:13:10 -0400
>>> Jeff Squyres <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 3, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Rolf Rabenseifner wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>> For me, the answer may have implications on how separate or
>>>>> integrated additional bindings should be integrated into the
>>>>> language independent text of the MPI standard.
>>>>
>>>> I don't quite understand.  All officially-supported language  
>>>> bindings
>>>> should be listed consistently in the standard.  In MPI-2.1, for
>>>> example, that means alongside the language neutral bindings in the
>>>> text and in Annex A.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------
>>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:27:08 -0400
>>> Jeff Squyres <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> wrote:
>>>> What about the C++/Fortran language bindings text?  Should the
>>>> majority of chapter 13 be merged into Terms and Conventions (and
>>>> elsewhere)?
>>>>
>>>> It's not really a "problem", per se -- but it is a little awkward.
>>>> There are sections in chapter 13 that could definitely fit in
>>>> existing
>>>> text elsewhere.  Some of it is redundant, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 3, 2008, at 3:19 PM, George Bosilca wrote:
>>>>> Bronis,
>>>>>
>>>>> If the data-type section get moved into the chapter 3 it make  
>>>>> sense
>>>>> to merge the leftover of the chapter 11 with chapter 7, as long as
>>>>> we choose a right name. "MPI Environmental Management" is not the
>>>>> right chapter for "Generalized Requests". But of course these are
>>>>> just details.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll get in touch with you asap to see how we can coordinate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>  george.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 3, 2008, at 12:58 PM, Bronis R. de Supinski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rolf:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re:
>>>>>>> my general statements do not answer you initial question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My opinion is that leaving obvious problems unfixed based
>>>>>> on an expected future version is a bad idea. However, I
>>>>>> don't want to argue over this since I think the best
>>>>>> approach is just to remove them now and then we don't
>>>>>> have to worry about them. Others have more concerns over
>>>>>> the time that they can devote to this (not that I have an
>>>>>> abundance) and might want to delay in any event in order
>>>>>> to get it right (at least mostly).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you decide to move parts from Chap.11 to  Chap.7,
>>>>>>> then you both mus discuss this. You both are responsible
>>>>>>> for these chapters.
>>>>>>> And you should first convince your reviewers:
>>>>>>> - Chap. 7: Rich, Jesper, Steve, Kannan, David, Bill
>>>>>>> - Chap.11: Bill and Rainer
>>>>>>> My recommendation:
>>>>>>> Express clearly which parts should be moved exactly to wich line
>>>>>>> (all based on page/line numbers as **printed** in Draft Apr. 1,
>>>>>>> 2008).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have discussed moving the datatype decoding stuff
>>>>>> with Rich and Bill. I will move those sections as I
>>>>>> suggested, with an initial pass for the current review.
>>>>>> This works well for Rich since he does not have time
>>>>>> to do this for another couple of weeks. I hope to get
>>>>>> that done today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the remainder, I will look over the two chapters
>>>>>> (7 & 11) and propose an initial merge strategy. George
>>>>>> can react to that; I don't know how long it will take
>>>>>> me to get that done...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bronis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jeff Squyres
>>>> Cisco Systems
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email  
>>> rabenseifner_at_[hidden]
>>> High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone + 
>>> +49(0)711/685-65530
>>> University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 /  
>>> 685-65832
>>> Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/ 
>>> rabenseifner
>>> Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . (Office: Allmandring 30)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpi-21 mailing list
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Squyres
>> Cisco Systems
>>
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-- 
Jeff Squyres
Cisco Systems