[mpiwg-persistence] [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)

Thu Nov 30 10:52:42 CST 2017

the wording seems OK to me

Anthony Skjellum, PhD

Affiliate Faculty, Computer Science and Software Engineering at Auburn University
205-807-4968 (cell)

Preferred e-mails  for me are skjellum at gmail.com or tony-skjellum at utc.edu

________________________________
From: mpiwg-persistence <mpiwg-persistence-bounces at lists.mpi-forum.org> on behalf of HOLMES Daniel <d.holmes at epcc.ed.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 5:18 AM
To: MPI WG Persistence working Group
Cc: Martin Schulz; Anthony Skjellum
Subject: Re: [mpiwg-persistence] [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)

Hi all,

I’ve just pushed this text change as is to the Persistence WG github - so it is now included on our pull request.

Do we wish to word-smith the exact phraseology at all? I’m happy with it as is, but I can easily make a wording change if we decide that’s needed or wanted.

Once we have WG sign-off on the wording, I’ll rebuild the PDF.

Cheers,
Dan.

On 30 Nov 2017, at 01:43, Anthony Skjellum <skjellum at auburn.edu<mailto:skjellum at auburn.edu>> wrote:

Martin, OK, thank you.  That makes perfect sense.-Tony

Anthony Skjellum, PhD
Affiliate Faculty, Computer Science and Software Engineering at Auburn University
205-807-4968 (cell)

Preferred e-mails  for me are skjellum at gmail.com<mailto:skjellum at gmail.com> or tony-skjellum at utc.edu<mailto:tony-skjellum at utc.edu>

________________________________
From: mpiwg-persistence <mpiwg-persistence-bounces at lists.mpi-forum.org<mailto:mpiwg-persistence-bounces at lists.mpi-forum.org>> on behalf of Martin Schulz <gu58niw at mytum.de<mailto:gu58niw at mytum.de>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 5:04 PM
To: Anthony Skjellum
Cc: MPI WG Persistence working Group
Subject: Re: [mpiwg-persistence] [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)

Hi Tony,

On 29. Nov 2017, at 23:58, Anthony Skjellum <skjellum at gmail.com<mailto:skjellum at gmail.com>> wrote:

Can this be a "ticket 0" change?

No, I think this is clearly more than a ticket 0 change, but as Dan suggested, it should pass the no/no vote test.

Martin

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Martin Schulz <gu58niw at mytum.de<mailto:gu58niw at mytum.de>>wrote:
Hi Dan, all,

Just my personal view: the that’s how I always interpreted the statement anyway, but I can see how this could be misinterpreted. Hence, adding the clarification is IMHO a good move.

Just my 2c,

Martin

On 29. Nov 2017, at 11:07, HOLMES Daniel <d.holmes at epcc.ed.ac.uk<mailto:d.holmes at epcc.ed.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hi Persistence WG members,

We have a suggested change to the wording of the MPI Standard text that we will propose to the MPI Forum next week regarding persistent collective operations.

Once initialized,
persistent collective operations can be started in any order
independently of initialization order
+and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator

Most of this sentence already appears in our proposed text - the suggestion is to add the line beginning with “+”.

I think this is a good suggestion - we should make this point absolutely clear. We should word-smith the exact phrase (e.g. during the meeting later today?) and then include it in our formal reading next week by holding a “no-no” vote.

Cheers,
Dan.

Begin forwarded message:

From: KAWASHIMA Takahiro <notifications at github.com<mailto:notifications at github.com>>
Subject: Re: [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)
Date: 29 November 2017 at 06:09:20 GMT
To: mpi-forum/mpi-standard <mpi-standard at noreply.github.com<mailto:mpi-standard at noreply.github.com>>
Cc: Dan Holmes <dholmes at epcc.ed.ac.uk<mailto:dholmes at epcc.ed.ac.uk>>, Mention <mention at noreply.github.com<mailto:mention at noreply.github.com>>
Reply-To: mpi-forum/mpi-standard <reply+00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f0842808776a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf000000011636110f92a169ce0dd58755 at reply.github.com<mailto:reply+00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f0842808776a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf000000011636110f92a169ce0dd58755 at reply.github.com>>

@dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk<https://github.com/dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk>,
With the existing text, I think many people can understand that it is saying (at least) "requests can be started using MPI_START or MPI_STARTALL in any order independently of initialization order", because of analogy to the point-to-point communication. So I think your suggested text is unnecessary.
But some people may not understand that it is also saying "the order of starting requests can differ among ranks in the communicator", because (1) the matching rule for persistent collective operations is different from the matching rule for point-to-point communication so that analogy to the point-to-point communication is not applied and (2) the order of nonblocking collective calls must be same among ranks in the communicator.
How about the sentence below? I'm not good at English. Please correct it if it is not good.
Once initialized,
persistent collective operations can be started in any order
independently of initialization order
and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator
If anyone else thinks the existing text is sufficient, I won't request the change. Probably my English reading skill is low.
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Anthony Skjellum, PhD
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