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<p>the wording seems OK to me<br>
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<p style="font-size:16px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small">Anthony Skjellum, PhD</span></p>
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<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">Affiliate Faculty, Computer Science and Software Engineering at Auburn University</font></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> mpiwg-persistence <mpiwg-persistence-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org> on behalf of HOLMES Daniel <d.holmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 30, 2017 5:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> MPI WG Persistence working Group<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Martin Schulz; Anthony Skjellum<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpiwg-persistence] [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)</font>
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<div>Hi all,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I’ve just pushed this text change as is to the Persistence WG github - so it is now included on our pull request.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Do we wish to word-smith the exact phraseology at all? I’m happy with it as is, but I can easily make a wording change if we decide that’s needed or wanted.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Once we have WG sign-off on the wording, I’ll rebuild the PDF.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Dan.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 30 Nov 2017, at 01:43, Anthony Skjellum <<a href="mailto:skjellum@auburn.edu" class="">skjellum@auburn.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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Martin, OK, thank you. That makes perfect sense.-Tony<br class="">
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<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; font-size:16px"><span class="" style="font-family:'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size:small">Anthony Skjellum, PhD</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2" class="">Affiliate Faculty, Computer Science and Software Engineering at Auburn University</font></div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2" class=""><span class="" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">205-807-4968 (cell) </span><br class="">
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<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span class="" style="font-family:'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size:small">Preferred e-mails for</span><span class="" style="font-family:'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size:small"> </span><span class="" style="font-family:'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size:small">me </span><span class="" style="font-family:'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size:small">are</span><span class="" style="font-family:'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size:small"> <a href="mailto:skjellum@gmail.com" class="" id="NoLP">skjellum@gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:tony-skjellum@utc.edu" class="" id="NoLP">tony-skjellum@utc.edu</a> </span><br class="">
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class="" style="font-size:11pt"><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mpiwg-persistence <<a href="mailto:mpiwg-persistence-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org" class="">mpiwg-persistence-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</a>>
on behalf of Martin Schulz <<a href="mailto:gu58niw@mytum.de" class="">gu58niw@mytum.de</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, November 29, 2017 5:04 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Anthony Skjellum<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>MPI WG Persistence working Group<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [mpiwg-persistence] [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)</font>
<div class=""> </div>
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<div class="">Hi Tony,<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 29. Nov 2017, at 23:58, Anthony Skjellum <<a href="mailto:skjellum@gmail.com" class="">skjellum@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Can this be a "ticket 0" change?</div>
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</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">No, I think this is clearly more than a ticket 0 change, but as Dan suggested, it should pass the no/no vote test.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">Martin</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class=""><br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Martin Schulz<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:gu58niw@mytum.de" target="_blank" class="">gu58niw@mytum.de</a>></span>wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204); border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi Dan, all,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Just my personal view: the that’s how I always interpreted the statement anyway, but I can see how this could be misinterpreted. Hence, adding the clarification is IMHO a good move.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Just my 2c,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">Martin</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="">On 29. Nov 2017, at 11:07, HOLMES Daniel <<a href="mailto:d.holmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">d.holmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="m_-8863473552613535937Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi Persistence WG members,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We have a suggested change to the wording of the MPI Standard text that we will propose to the MPI Forum next week regarding persistent collective operations.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Once initialized,<br class="">
persistent collective operations can be started in any order<br class="">
independently of initialization order<br class="">
+and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Most of this sentence already appears in our proposed text - the suggestion is to add the line beginning with “+”.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think this is a good suggestion - we should make this point absolutely clear. We should word-smith the exact phrase (e.g. during the meeting later today?) and then include it in our formal reading next week by holding a “no-no” vote.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
</div>
<div class="">Dan.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="m_-8863473552613535937Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="" style="margin:0px"><span class=""><b class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">KAWASHIMA Takahiro <<a href="mailto:notifications@github.com" target="_blank" class="">notifications@github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px"><span class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class=""><b class="">Re: [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)</b><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px"><span class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">29 November 2017 at 06:09:20 GMT<br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px"><span class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">mpi-forum/mpi-standard <<a href="mailto:mpi-standard@noreply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">mpi-standard@noreply.github.<wbr class="">com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px"><span class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">Dan Holmes <<a href="mailto:dholmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">dholmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk</a>>, Mention <<a href="mailto:mention@noreply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">mention@noreply.github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px"><span class=""><b class="">Reply-To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="">mpi-forum/mpi-standard <<a href="mailto:reply+00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f0842808776a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf000000011636110f92a169ce0dd58755@reply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">reply+<wbr class="">00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f08428087<wbr class="">76a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf00000001<wbr class="">1636110f92a169ce0dd58755@<wbr class="">reply.github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><a href="https://github.com/dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk" class="m_-8863473552613535937user-mention" target="_blank">@dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk</a>,<br class="">
With the existing text, I think many people can understand that it is saying (at least) "<em class="">requests can be started using<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><code class="">MPI_START</code><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><code class="">MPI_STARTALL</code><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>in
any order independently of initialization order</em>", because of analogy to the point-to-point communication. So I think your suggested text is unnecessary.<br class="">
But some people may<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><em class="">not</em><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>understand that it is also saying "<em class="">the order of starting requests can differ among ranks in the communicator</em>",
because (1) the matching rule for persistent collective operations is different from the matching rule for point-to-point communication so that analogy to the point-to-point communication is not applied and (2) the order of nonblocking collective calls must
be same among ranks in the communicator.</div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">How about the sentence below? I'm not good at English. Please correct it if it is not good.</div>
<blockquote class="">
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Once initialized,<br class="">
persistent collective operations can be started in any order<br class="">
independently of initialization order<br class="">
and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">If anyone else thinks the existing text is sufficient, I won't request the change. Probably my English reading skill is low.</div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; font-size:small; color:rgb(102,102,102)">
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<div dir="ltr" class="">Anthony Skjellum, PhD<br class="">
<a href="mailto:skjellum@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">skjellum@gmail.com</a><br class="">
Cell: +1-205-807-4968
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