[mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community

Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) jsquyres at cisco.com
Thu Oct 17 08:43:21 CDT 2019 

Just a ping to the list: today's the day!  This is the day we could all meet on the call to discuss this issue (in a little over an hour from now).  

Just wanted to bring this thread back to everyone's INBOX to remind you of the issue and the question from the Open MPI community.


> On Oct 10, 2019, at 12:56 PM, Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> it was quiet here for a while, but I just wanted to announce the date
> to further our discussion on this topic as:
> 
> Thursday, October 17, 2019
> 11:00 AM - 12:00 PM
> (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
> 
> Cheers,
> Marc-Andre
> 
> On 19.09.19 08:08, Marc-André Hermanns wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> so we conclude that we will move this discussion to a later date.
>> 
>> As the upcoming weeks may need some special handling (Bill Williams is
>> not available on usual slot  next week, Oct 3 is a public holiday in
>> Germany, Oct 10 I have scheduling difficulties) I created a doole poll
>> with some options.
>> 
>> https://doodle.com/poll/ir35szkfkkausbpf
>> 
>> Please indicate what works for you.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Marc-Andre
>> 
>> On 17.09.19 15:18, William Williams wrote:
>>> I can probably do something at 1900CET that Thursday but am on
>>> airplanes for a few hours before that. If that’s not workable for
>>> others, I’m happy to discuss things over email or a subsequent week as
>>> folks prefer.
>>> 
>>> Bill Williams
>>> Wiss. Mitarbeiter
>>> ZIH-IAK, TU-Dresden
>>> Falkenbrunnen, Room 009
>>> Chemnitzer Straße 50
>>> 01187 Dresden
>>> Phone:  +49 351 463-39976
>>> e-mail:   william.williams at mailbox.tu-dresden.de
>>> <mailto:william.williams at mailbox.tu-dresden.de>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 17. Sep 2019, at 14:53, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)
>>>> <jsquyres at cisco.com <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Pushing to Thursday 26 Sep works for me.
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry for the schedule complications!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 17, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Mohror, Kathryn <mohror1 at llnl.gov
>>>>> <mailto:mohror1 at llnl.gov>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marc-Andre,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pushing to a later Thursday is fine with me. I am not aware of any
>>>>> other tools people that are planning to join this coming Thursday.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kathryn
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools-bounces at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools-bounces at lists.mpi-forum.org>> On Behalf Of
>>>>> Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 11:46 PM
>>>>> To: Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres at cisco.com
>>>>> <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>>; MPI Tool WG
>>>>> <mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>>; William Williams
>>>>> <william.williams at mailbox.tu-dresden.de
>>>>> <mailto:william.williams at mailbox.tu-dresden.de>>
>>>>> Cc: Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de
>>>>> <mailto:hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>>> 
>>>>> sorry for the delay in responding to your email.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As Martin also has some conflicts for this upcoming Thursday, we
>>>>> had the idea to push this to another week. How would that work for you?
>>>>> 
>>>>> @Kathryn: Do you know from anyone at LLNL or other US sites who
>>>>> planned to come, who we need to inform if we shift to another week?
>>>>> I put Bill Williams (from TU Dresden) in CC, as he initially
>>>>> planned to join as well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If shifting the topic to a later date doesn't work out for you, you
>>>>> can certainly sync up with me, but I think first-hand information
>>>>> is always best in a discussion and it's always a pleasure to have
>>>>> you on the call ;-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Marc-Andre
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 16.09.19 15:05, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) wrote:
>>>>>> Something changed and I'm sorry, I can't be there this Thursday.
>>>>>>  I'm sorry!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can I sync up with someone before Thursday to explain what I'm
>>>>>> asking about?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)
>>>>>>> <jsquyres at cisco.com <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sure, I can be there.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Marc-André Hermanns via
>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> sorry about the silence. As Martin already said, your mail led to
>>>>>>>> some internal discussion and we wanted to reach out beyond the
>>>>>>>> tools
>>>>>>>> people on the mailing list because it seems no-one on the list is
>>>>>>>> currently able to handle Fortran descriptors, but we failed to
>>>>>>>> keep you informed.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Would you be available on *Sep 19* for the tools call? That would
>>>>>>>> give us some time to contact some people outside the working group
>>>>>>>> and they'd have time to either give feedback or organize their
>>>>>>>> schedules in a way to attend the call.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Marc-Andre
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 29.08.19 16:53, Martin Schulz via mpiwg-tools wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Due to the summer break and vacation time, especially in
>>>>>>>>> Europe, we
>>>>>>>>> haven’t had a chance to address this - Marc-Andre had suggested a
>>>>>>>>> tools call on this for after EuroMPI and then we’ll know more (we
>>>>>>>>> need to get tool implementors to the table who are not part of
>>>>>>>>> the WG).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Personally, though, I fear you are right with your assumption, but
>>>>>>>>> I am happy to be proven wrong.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> —
>>>>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and
>>>>>>>>> Parallel Systems Department of Informatics, TU-Munich,
>>>>>>>>> Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching Member of the Board of
>>>>>>>>> Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre
>>>>>>>>> (LRZ)
>>>>>>>>> Email: schulzm at in.tum.de <mailto:schulzm at in.tum.de>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:schulzm at in.tum.de>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 29. Aug 2019, at 16:46, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via
>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools
>>>>>>>>>> <mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Should I infer from the lack of reply that no tools properly
>>>>>>>>>> handle either Fortran descriptors or the descriptor-based symbols?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via
>>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In Open MPI, we are finally working towards supporting Fortran
>>>>>>>>>>> descriptors for choice buffers (i.e., "TYPE(*), DIMENSION(..)").
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Per MPI-3.1 p613 table 17.1, this means ***changing all the
>>>>>>>>>>> back-end symbols*** that are used for PMPI-style interception.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> A concrete example:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> - in mpif.h / the mpi module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_FTS
>>>>>>>>>>> - in the mpi_f08 module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_F08TS
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I.e., anywhere the application calls MPI_SEND, it will be
>>>>>>>>>>> transmogrified to either MPI_SEND_FTS or MPI_SEND_F08TS.  And
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> choice buffer passed will be a descriptor (which may
>>>>>>>>>>> therefore be
>>>>>>>>>>> a subarray, not a contiguous buffer), not a naked pointer.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Here's my questions:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Do any tools support Fortran descriptors as choice buffers?
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Do any tools intercept the symbols as described in MPI-3.1
>>>>>>>>>>> table 17.1?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Squyres
>>>>>>>>>>> jsquyres at cisco.com <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Squyres
>>>>>>>>>> jsquyres at cisco.com <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list
>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> IT Center
>>>>>>>> Group: High Performance Computing
>>>>>>>> Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen
>>>>>>>> University Seffenter Weg 23
>>>>>>>> 52074 Aachen
>>>>>>>> Phone: +49 241 80-24381
>>>>>>>> hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de <mailto:hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de>
>>>>>>>> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list
>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools at lists.mpi-forum.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jeff Squyres
>>>>>>> jsquyres at cisco.com <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns
>>>>> 
>>>>> IT Center
>>>>> Group: High Performance Computing
>>>>> Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen
>>>>> University Seffenter Weg 23
>>>>> 52074 Aachen
>>>>> Phone: +49 241 80-24381
>>>>> hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de <mailto:hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de>
>>>>> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jeff Squyres
>>>> jsquyres at cisco.com <mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com>
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns
> 
> IT Center
> Group: High Performance Computing
> Division: Computational Science and Engineering
> RWTH Aachen University
> Seffenter Weg 23
> 52074 Aachen
> Phone: +49 241 80-24381
> hermanns at itc.rwth-aachen.de
> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de
> 


-- 
Jeff Squyres
jsquyres at cisco.com

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