[mpiwg-hybridpm] Changes to the EI chapter

George Bosilca bosilca at icl.utk.edu
Sun Mar 8 19:17:52 CDT 2015


Can you please share the outcome of your discussion (or discussions)?

  George.


On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 8:42 PM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres at cisco.com>
wrote:

> Jeff H and pavan and I chatted about this after the session (and had a
> good laugh about the emails).
>
> More discussion is required tomorrow - it gets subtle. Ugh.
>
> Sent from my phone. No type good.
>
> > On Mar 3, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Jeff Hammond <jeff.science at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am a huge fan of passive aggressive behavior :-D
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)
> > <jsquyres at cisco.com> wrote:
> >> *This thread* is meaningless.  :-)
> >>
> >> We're in the same room and emailing flames at each other.
> >>
> >> Let's talk after the session.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mar 3, 2015, at 3:47 PM, Jeff Hammond <jeff.science at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The text means exactly what it means.  How much more pedantic does it
> >>> need to be?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)
> >>> <jsquyres at cisco.com> wrote:
> >>>> It's removed because it's ambiguous/meaningless.  If you want to
> state something specific, state something specific.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mar 3, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Jeff Hammond <jeff.science at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I wrote the primary wording.  Ball is in your court to propose an
> >>>>> alternative if you don't like my version.  But it has to preserve the
> >>>>> intent of the original text, not just remove it because it makes you
> >>>>> uncomfortable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jeff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Balaji, Pavan <balaji at anl.gov>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please suggest alternate wording.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- Pavan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2015, at 5:32 PM, Jeff Hammond <jeff.science at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I could be wrong, but if I wrote that sentence, I meant what George
> >>>>>>> said and not anything else.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jeff
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Balaji, Pavan <balaji at anl.gov>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This was not what was voted on.  The vote was based on the PDF,
> which doesn't contain this text.  So the change is incorrect and comes
> under the chapter committee prerogative.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Coming to the change itself, for environments that don't even
> allow multiple threads to exist, this is trivial for MPI implementations to
> provide.  The concern is that before MPI_INIT_THREAD, I do not know if I
> can use THREAD_MULTIPLE or not.  The user does not know and should be able
> to call these functions either way.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -- Pavan
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2015, at 4:56 PM, George Bosilca <bosilca at icl.utk.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This change is a direct effect of the #357 ticket (
> https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/357), that has been
> discussed and had received a successful vote (18 yes, 0 no, 1 abstain).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Removing this particular part of the paragraph does not clarify
> all conflicts of this section. Few lines above there is an even bolder
> statement claiming that "Therefore, \MPI/ implementations are not required
> to be thread compliant as defined in this section." So to thread or not to
> thread?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My understanding is that "implementation that do not support
> threads" are not referring to implementations that solely provide support
> for MPI_THREAD_SERIALIZED, but to implementations that have no thread
> support at all (they don't even link against pthreads). Forcing such an
> implementation to provide thread safety for a handful of functions is
> unreasonable.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> George.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Balaji, Pavan <balaji at anl.gov>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks.  Jim/Jeff/Aurelien?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Daniel Holmes <
> dholmes at epcc.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I agree that this sentence should not be in the standard.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>> Dan.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 03/03/2015 14:24, Balaji, Pavan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> The Forum was not entirely happy with the chapter committee
> change on the EI chapter.  Specifically, the following sentence that was
> added into the pdf should be removed:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> "Implementations that do not support threads are not required
> to support the calling of these functions from threads."
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This is in direct contradiction to the fact that the mentioned
> functions should work correctly without knowing whether threads are there
> or not.  I plan to remove it.  Please let me know what you think.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -- Pavan
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> Pavan Balaji  ✉️
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mcs.anl.gov/~balaji
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Dan Holmes
> >>>>>>>>>> Applications Consultant in HPC Research
> >>>>>>>>>> EPCC, The University of Edinburgh
> >>>>>>>>>> James Clerk Maxwell Building
> >>>>>>>>>> The Kings Buildings
> >>>>>>>>>> Peter Guthrie Tait Road
> >>>>>>>>>> Edinburgh
> >>>>>>>>>> EH9 3FD
> >>>>>>>>>> T: +44(0)131 651 3465
> >>>>>>>>>> E: dholmes at epcc.ed.ac.uk
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Please consider the environment before printing this email.*
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> >>>>>>>>>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Pavan Balaji  ✉️
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.mcs.anl.gov/~balaji
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Pavan Balaji  ✉️
> >>>>>>>> http://www.mcs.anl.gov/~balaji
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Jeff Hammond
> >>>>>>> jeff.science at gmail.com
> >>>>>>> http://jeffhammond.github.io/
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Pavan Balaji  ✉️
> >>>>>> http://www.mcs.anl.gov/~balaji
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Jeff Hammond
> >>>>> jeff.science at gmail.com
> >>>>> http://jeffhammond.github.io/
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Jeff Squyres
> >>>> jsquyres at cisco.com
> >>>> For corporate legal information go to:
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jeff Hammond
> >>> jeff.science at gmail.com
> >>> http://jeffhammond.github.io/
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >>> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeff Squyres
> >> jsquyres at cisco.com
> >> For corporate legal information go to:
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> >> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> >> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Hammond
> > jeff.science at gmail.com
> > http://jeffhammond.github.io/
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> > mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
> _______________________________________________
> mpiwg-hybridpm mailing list
> mpiwg-hybridpm at lists.mpi-forum.org
> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpiwg-hybridpm
>
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