[MPIWG Fortran] Question about MPI_Status_f2f08() and _f082f()
Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)
jsquyres at cisco.com
Thu Jul 16 09:19:14 CDT 2020
Thanks Rolf, Hubert, and Bill. It all makes sense.
Rolf has proposed that we add the following at the end of the sentence on MPI-3.1 p657 line 11:
(only in the mpi_f08 and mpi modules)
This sounds reasonable to me, but do we need some additional annotation in the MPI_Status_f2f08 and _f082f bindings to indicate that the all-caps Fortran binding is only for the mpi module, and not mpif.h?
> On Jul 15, 2020, at 3:08 PM, Rolf Rabenseifner via mpiwg-fortran <mpiwg-fortran at lists.mpi-forum.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Hubert and Jeff,
>
>> Ø I'm a little curious as to why we conspicuously left it out of mpif.h.
>
> I expect, we didn't want that mpif.h must include the overloading
> of the operators .NE. and .EQ. for all TYPE(MPI_....).
> I'm not sure whether such declaration is allowed outside of a module.
>
> The use of mpif.h was already deprecated, i.e., if somebody
> wants to use mpi_f08 stuff in old code, he or she must
> first substitute the include mpif.h by use mpi.
>
>> ... But it was never intended that the programmer
>> does this transformation within the old Fortran subroutine (and old Fortran 77
>> compiler or using Fortran 77 language kind wouldn’t support Type(MPI_Status) in
>> mpif.h).
>
> It was intended that you can convert from old INTEGER variable or array
> to new TYPE(MPI_...) within source code using the mpi module
> or using the mpi_f08 module.
>
> But we excluded mpif.h because it need not to provide compile-time
> argument checking and it use is therefore "strongly discouraged".
> Why should we add something to this "strongly discouraged" mpif.h
> area.
>
> And, to add it in a later version of MPI is simple. To remove it later
> is not backward compatible. This may be another reason for not
> adding it to mpif.h
>
> Best regards
> Rolf
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "MPI-WG Fortran working group" <mpiwg-fortran at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>> To: "MPI-WG Fortran working group" <mpiwg-fortran at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>> Cc: "Hubert Ritzdorf" <Hubert.Ritzdorf at EMEA.NEC.COM>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 6:15:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MPIWG Fortran] Question about MPI_Status_f2f08() and _f082f()
>
>> Ø I'm a little curious as to why we conspicuously left it out of mpif.h.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I remember correctly, MPI_Status_f2f08() and _f082f() subroutines were for
>> a smooth transition from Fortran 77 to Fortran 08.
>>
>> I.e. if a programmer has changed some functions from old Fortran to Fortran 08
>> and uses other libraries or subroutines which still use the old Fortran status
>> as input or output argument, it was possible to transfer the old Fortran status
>> within the Fortran 08 subroutine. But it was never intended that the programmer
>> does this transformation within the old Fortran subroutine (and old Fortran 77
>> compiler or using Fortran 77 language kind wouldn’t support Type(MPI_Status) in
>> mpif.h).
>>
>>
>>
>> Hubert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: mpiwg-fortran [mailto:mpiwg-fortran-bounces at lists.mpi-forum.org] On Behalf
>> Of Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via mpiwg-fortran
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 5:26 PM
>> To: MPI Fortran WG <mpiwg-fortran at lists.mpi-forum.org>
>> Cc: Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres at cisco.com>
>> Subject: Re: [MPIWG Fortran] Question about MPI_Status_f2f08() and _f082f()
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to bring this thread back on-track about TYPE(MPI_Status)...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Off list, I asked Rolf R. about this issue -- he cited the same things I did,
>> plus a few more:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On your question on TYPE(MPI_Status), TYPE(MPI_Comm), ...:
>>
>>
>> MPI-3.1
>>
>>
>> - page 607 lines 18-24 require these types and the overloaded
>>
>>
>> operators .EQ./.NE. for mpi_f08 module
>>
>>
>> - page 609 lines 34-36 require these types and the overloaded
>>
>>
>> operators .EQ./.NE. for mpi module
>>
>>
>> - there is no such text on page 611-612 on mpif.h
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> And page 802 lines 9-15 also Show that it was never intented to add
>>
>>
>> These types anf routines to old mpif.h.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be helpful, to add at least on page 657 line 11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> C, some in both C and Fortran (only in the mpi_f08 and mpi modules).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you fix this with an one-vote-bug-fix-issue?
>>
>>
>> Because it is not good if the information must be taken from the change-log.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> Summary:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Does this mean that TYPE(MPI_Status)
>>
>>
>> [ and the Fortran routines MPI_STATUS_F2F08 and _F082F ]
>>
>>
>> needs to be defined in
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - mpif.h? NO
>>
>>
>> - and the mpi module? YES
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bug-fix needed in MPI-3.1 page 657 line 11: add
>>
>>
>> "(only in the mpi_f08 and mpi modules)" at the end.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>>
>> Rolf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So I think there's at least a clarification here: the TYPE(MPI_Status) and
>> associated functions is -- at a minimum -- supposed to be in the mpi module.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm a little curious as to why we conspicuously left it out of mpif.h.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill: this is somewhat counter to the clarification you proposed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you ok with this? I think the text in the standard supports what Rolf
>> proposes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 10, 2020, at 12:11 PM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via mpiwg-fortran < [
>> mailto:mpiwg-fortran at lists.mpi-forum.org | mpiwg-fortran at lists.mpi-forum.org ]
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 10, 2020, at 11:18 AM, Bill Long < [ mailto:longb at cray.com |
>> longb at cray.com ] > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the “change” section there is this txt:
>>
>> • Within the mpi_08 Fortran module, the status was defined as TYPE(MPI_Status).
>> Additionally, within both the mpi and the mpi_f08 modules, the constants
>> MPI_STATUS_SIZE, MPI_SOURCE, MPI_TAG, MPI_ERROR, and TYPE(MPI_Status) are
>> defined. New conversion routines were added: MPI_STATUS_F2F08,
>> MPI_STATUS_F082F, MPI_Status_c2f08, and MPI_Status_f082c, In mpi.h, the new
>> type MPI_F08_status, and the external variables MPI_F08_STATUS_IGNORE and
>> MPI_F08_STATUSES_IGNORE were added.
>>
>>
>> Good point.
>>
>> Just to be clear, you're referring to the changelog section in MPI-3.1,
>> specifically bullet 30 on p802.
>>
>> That being said:
>>
>> - the changelog is non-binding ...but it does indicate our intent from that time
>> - the changelog text states that the mpi module has TYPE(MPI_Status) -- but it
>> does not say it was added to mpif.h
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Why would the F08 status be defined different from the C definition? (If that
>> were the case, conversions between f08 and C would be irrelevant).
>>
>>
>> I remember that there was a lot of discussion about this at the time, which is
>> what resulted in Figure 17.1.
>>
>> I know there were discussions about making the F08 and C statuses the same, but
>> for some reason we chose not to mandate it. Perhaps we wanted to allow
>> implementations to do whatever they wanted...? (e.g., allow Status_c2f08 be a
>> no-op if the implementation wanted to, but not mandate it)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) \begin{unpopular} Why are the legacy mpi module and mpif.h still included in
>> the spec? These are embarrassingly obsolete. If this was fixed, none of the
>> above mentioned conversion routines would be needed. \end(unpopular}
>>
>>
>>
>> I would love it if we could ditch -- at a minimum -- mpif.h.
>>
>> However, there's oodles of legacy code out there that uses it. That's why even
>> deprecating it gets shouted down at Forum meetings.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Squyres
>> [ mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com | jsquyres at cisco.com ]
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Squyres
>> [ mailto:jsquyres at cisco.com | jsquyres at cisco.com ]
>>
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>
> --
> Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseifner at hlrs.de .
> High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 .
> University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 .
> Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner .
> Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) .
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--
Jeff Squyres
jsquyres at cisco.com
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