<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Quick follow-up to today’s call. I’d like to suggest adding a bullet to the list of requirements for supporting remote tool connections - i.e., where the tool is executing on a node different from the process to which it is attached (RM or launcher). This is a really useful capability. For example, I am currently running a GUI-based tool on my desktop computer that is attached and controlling an application launcher on a cluster 200 miles away (I confess it is using PMIx). Yes, I could login to that machine, but then I either am limited to a text screen or must utilize secondary tools like VNC or X11. Much cleaner to just directly connect/control.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is where I was going with the ability to detach and remain running - however, I think some explicit language about remote operations might be useful.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">HTH</div><div class="">Ralph</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 21, 2019, at 6:46 AM, Mohror, Kathryn via mpiwg-tools <<a href="mailto:mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org" class="">mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi all,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks Dick and John for sending your use cases and straw men!<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Here are a couple more docs I found from our discussions in the past:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Straw man from Anh Vo (mpi_debugging_requirements-AV-05-10-2016)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Needs from Allinea debugger as described by Chris January (mpi_debugging_requirements (002))<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Notes from Forum meeting 2/27/2017:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2017-02-27" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2017-02-27</a><o:p class=""></o:p></li></ol><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Talk to you all soon!<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Kathryn<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mpiwg-tools <<a href="mailto:mpiwg-tools-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mpiwg-tools-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dirk Schubert via mpiwg-tools<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, March 21, 2019 3:43 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dirk Schubert <<a href="mailto:Dirk.Schubert@arm.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Dirk.Schubert@arm.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting March 21, 2019<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Hi Kathryn,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">The following use cases are important for Arm Forge (debugger DDT and profiler MAP).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><b class="">Use case 1: Launch an MPI job under the control of a tool.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><br class=""><br class=""><i class="">Input:</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The user's regular command line to start the MPI job, for example "mpirun -n 256 ./wave_c". Why? To make it as friction-less as possible to use a tool.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">NB: The tool does not want to parse or interpret the MPI starter arguments, as the tool has no knowledge of all possible MPI starter arguments.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><i class="">Requirements:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Hold MPI processes</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for the tool to attach to them and to release them when attached.<br class="">Q: Where are processes held? In MPI_Init or _start?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Spawn tool daemon</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>on nodes where job is running.<br class="">Q: Co-spawn or separate?<br class="">Q: One per node or one per process?<br class="">Q: Environment? Same general environment as MPI processes instead of restricted environment (e.g. $HOME not set or chroot).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Acquire the process table</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(rank, hostname, pid and executable path) of spawned MPI processes.<br class="">Q: Only global proctable or additionally local (per node) proctable?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(117, 123, 128);" class="">[Optional]</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Modify the environment</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of the MPI processes before launching, such as prepending to LD_PRELOAD or LD_LIBRARY_PATH to inject preloads into the MPI processes (but not other processes, such as MPI daemons or tool daemons).<br class="">Q: When? It would be great if modifying the environment could be done just before the MPI processes are forked/exec’ed. Why? For our profiler MAP we need to preload an MPI specific PMPI library, but for some “MPI” starter processes such as srun we don’t know the real MPI implementation that is used. Acquiring a partial process table (no PIDs) and inspecting the binaries pointed to by the executable paths, could allow us to detect the MPI implementation.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(117, 123, 128);" class="">[Optional]</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Raise queue allocation request and granted events</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to allow the tool to disable startup timeouts temporarily while a queue allocation is in progress, as this can take a long time (applicable to srun).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(117, 123, 128);" class="">[Optional]</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Scalable startup of tool daemons and shipping of preloads</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>without touching the parallel file system on compute nodes. For example, pushing of daemon executable file (and dependencies plus preloads) to ram disk on compute nodes or Spindle?<br class="">Q: Where files are pushed? A job specific temporary directory such as /tmp/mpi.job.1234/... or configurable?<br class="">Q: How can the tool query the location of pushed files to reference them?<br class="">Q: Who cleans up the files afterwards? The MPI job/starter itself or the tool?<br class="">N: Files should be pushed with original file’s permissions.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br class="">NB: Optional requirement = A tool could ultimately work without it, but I very much would like to see it supported.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">In PMIx this is the “indirect” use case and Ralph Castain and I have been working together since a while to make sure this use case will be supported by PMIx (excluding some optional requirements for now).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br class=""><i class="">Additional questions/notes:</i><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">How will the handshake work, such that the MPI starter knows it's running under a tool and when it's possible for a tool to interact with the MPI starter process?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">The handshake must support cases where the MPI starter filename that is provided by the user is a wrapper around the real MPI starter executable, for example XALT. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">In PMIx both problems are solved with PMIX_LAUNCHER_PAUSE_FOR_TOOL=1 and PMIX_LAUNCHER_RENDEZVOUS_FILE=<filename>.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Will only the tool or also the tool daemons interact with the MPI job?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Security, for example USER B shall not be able to attach to MPI job of USER A.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Anything to consider for MPMD or heterogeneous systems?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Must be scalable.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Must not require a debugger.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br class=""><b class="">Use case 2: Attach to a running MPI job with a tool.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><br class=""><br class="">This use case is a subset of use case 1 with the following requirements:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Acquire the process table of spawned MPI processes of MPI job. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Spawn tool daemon on nodes where MPI job is running.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(117, 123, 128);" class="">[Optional]</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Scalable startup of tool daemons without touching the file system.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></li></ul></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Thanks,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Dirk<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p><div id="Signature" class=""><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Dirk Schubert | Arm |</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> Staff Software Engineer </span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><a href="mailto:dirk.schubert@arm.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">dirk.schubert@arm.com</a></span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><p class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(58, 89, 121);" class="">allinea</span></b><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: gray;" class="">is now part of<b class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(19, 141, 172);" class="">Arm</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><hr size="4" width="98%" align="center" class=""></span></div><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="" class="">From:</span></b><span style="" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mpiwg-tools <<a href="mailto:mpiwg-tools-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mpiwg-tools-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</a>> on behalf of Mohror, Kathryn via mpiwg-tools <<a href="mailto:mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>17 March 2019 14:46<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mpiwg-tools@lists.mpi-forum.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mohror, Kathryn<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mpiwg-tools] Meeting March 21, 2019</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Hey everybody,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">For our call this Thursday (3/21) we’ll come back to debugger topics again. The call is at the usual time in the US (8 am Pacific/ 11 am Eastern / 4 pm CET) but note that the US has moved to DST but I don’t think the EU has done so yet.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Webex Info:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://apps.fz-juelich.de/scalasca/mpiwg-tools-webex/index.php" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://apps.fz-juelich.de/scalasca/mpiwg-tools-webex/index.php</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Agenda:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">In the last debugger call, I said that the plan for this meeting would be to get an overview of OMPD and start talking about analogous interfaces for MPI (e.g. revamp MQD). However, in the meantime, I was convinced that we should focus on process acquisition first. So, the plan will be to talk about process acquisition in this meeting. I’ll go through our notes from 2017(ish) to hopefully find the straw men we drafted back then. Please bring your use cases and any ideas you have on this front.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">_________________________________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Kathryn Mohror,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:kathryn@llnl.gov" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">kathryn@llnl.gov</a>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://people.llnl.gov/kathryn" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://people.llnl.gov/kathryn</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><a href="https://computation.llnl.gov/casc/data-analysis-group" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Data Analysis Group</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>@ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, CA, USA<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. 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