<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none"><!-- p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; }--></style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>Martin, OK, thank you. That makes perfect sense.-Tony<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="Signature">
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:; margin:0">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">
<p style="font-size:16px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="font-size:16px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small">Anthony Skjellum, PhD</span></p>
<div id="Signature" style="font-size:16px">
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="margin:0px">
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2">Affiliate Faculty, Computer Science and Software Engineering at Auburn University</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">205-807-4968 (cell) </span><br>
</font></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small">Preferred e-mails for</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small"> </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small">me </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small">are</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",Times,serif; font-size:small"> skjellum@gmail.com
or tony-skjellum@utc.edu </span><br>
</div>
<div id="Signature">
<div style="margin:0px"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> mpiwg-persistence <mpiwg-persistence-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org> on behalf of Martin Schulz <gu58niw@mytum.de><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 29, 2017 5:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Anthony Skjellum<br>
<b>Cc:</b> MPI WG Persistence working Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpiwg-persistence] [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>Hi Tony,<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 29. Nov 2017, at 23:58, Anthony Skjellum <<a href="mailto:skjellum@gmail.com" class="">skjellum@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Can this be a "ticket 0" change?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>No, I think this is clearly more than a ticket 0 change, but as Dan suggested, it should pass the no/no vote test.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Martin</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Martin Schulz <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:gu58niw@mytum.de" target="_blank" class="">gu58niw@mytum.de</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">Hi Dan, all,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Just my personal view: the that’s how I always interpreted the statement anyway, but I can see how this could be misinterpreted. Hence, adding the clarification is IMHO a good move.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Just my 2c,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Martin</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="">On 29. Nov 2017, at 11:07, HOLMES Daniel <<a href="mailto:d.holmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">d.holmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="m_-8863473552613535937Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi Persistence WG members,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We have a suggested change to the wording of the MPI Standard text that we will propose to the MPI Forum next week regarding persistent collective operations.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Once initialized,<br class="">
persistent collective operations can be started in any order<br class="">
independently of initialization order<br class="">
+and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Most of this sentence already appears in our proposed text - the suggestion is to add the line beginning with “+”.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think this is a good suggestion - we should make this point absolutely clear. We should word-smith the exact phrase (e.g. during the meeting later today?) and then include it in our formal reading next week by holding a “no-no” vote.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
</div>
<div class="">Dan.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="m_-8863473552613535937Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px">
<span class="" style=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span class="" style="">KAWASHIMA Takahiro <<a href="mailto:notifications@github.com" target="_blank" class="">notifications@github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px">
<span class="" style=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span class="" style=""><b class="">Re: [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)</b><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px">
<span class="" style=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span class="" style="">29 November 2017 at 06:09:20 GMT<br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px">
<span class="" style=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span class="" style="">mpi-forum/mpi-standard <<a href="mailto:mpi-standard@noreply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">mpi-standard@noreply.github.<wbr class="">com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px">
<span class="" style=""><b class="">Cc: </b></span><span class="" style="">Dan Holmes <<a href="mailto:dholmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">dholmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk</a>>, Mention <<a href="mailto:mention@noreply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">mention@noreply.github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px">
<span class="" style=""><b class="">Reply-To: </b></span><span class="" style="">mpi-forum/mpi-standard <<a href="mailto:reply+00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f0842808776a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf000000011636110f92a169ce0dd58755@reply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">reply+<wbr class="">00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f08428087<wbr class="">76a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf00000001<wbr class="">1636110f92a169ce0dd58755@<wbr class="">reply.github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<p class=""><a href="https://github.com/dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk" class="m_-8863473552613535937user-mention" target="_blank">@dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk</a>,<br class="">
With the existing text, I think many people can understand that it is saying (at least) "<em class="">requests can be started using
<code class="">MPI_START</code> or <code class="">MPI_STARTALL</code> in any order independently of initialization order</em>", because of analogy to the point-to-point communication. So I think your suggested text is unnecessary.<br class="">
But some people may <em class="">not</em> understand that it is also saying "<em class="">the order of starting requests can differ among ranks in the communicator</em>", because (1) the matching rule for persistent collective operations is different from the
matching rule for point-to-point communication so that analogy to the point-to-point communication is not applied and (2) the order of nonblocking collective calls must be same among ranks in the communicator.</p>
<p class="">How about the sentence below? I'm not good at English. Please correct it if it is not good.</p>
<blockquote class="">
<p class="">Once initialized,<br class="">
persistent collective operations can be started in any order<br class="">
independently of initialization order<br class="">
and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator</p>
</blockquote>
<p class="">If anyone else thinks the existing text is sufficient, I won't request the change. Probably my English reading skill is low.</p>
<p class="" style="font-size:small; color:#666">—<br class="">
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.<br class="">
Reply to this email directly, <a href="https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/29#issuecomment-347762876" target="_blank" class="">
view it on GitHub</a>, or <a href="https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMf8SiG0KfwGmYxNhaFoTBv_JDwibZPnks5s7PUPgaJpZM4Npoc2" target="_blank" class="">
mute the thread</a>.<img alt="" height="1" width="1" class="" src="https://github.com/notifications/beacon/AMf8Sh80B-H6iAlVOofDjqvuOERsMNjgks5s7PUPgaJpZM4Npoc2.gif"></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in<br class="">
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.<br class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
mpiwg-persistence mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:mpiwg-persistence@lists.mpi-forum.org" target="_blank" class="">mpiwg-persistence@lists.mpi-<wbr class="">forum.org</a><br class="">
<a href="https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-persistence" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.mpi-forum.org/<wbr class="">mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-<wbr class="">persistence</a><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
mpiwg-persistence mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:mpiwg-persistence@lists.mpi-forum.org" class="">mpiwg-persistence@lists.mpi-<wbr class="">forum.org</a><br class="">
<a href="https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-persistence" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.mpi-forum.org/<wbr class="">mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-<wbr class="">persistence</a><br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<br clear="all" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
-- <br class="">
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Anthony Skjellum, PhD<br class="">
<a href="mailto:skjellum@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">skjellum@gmail.com</a><br class="">
Cell: +1-205-807-4968
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>