<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Tony,<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 29. Nov 2017, at 23:58, Anthony Skjellum <<a href="mailto:skjellum@gmail.com" class="">skjellum@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Can this be a "ticket 0" change?</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>No, I think this is clearly more than a ticket 0 change, but as Dan suggested, it should pass the no/no vote test.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Martin</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Martin Schulz <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:gu58niw@mytum.de" target="_blank" class="">gu58niw@mytum.de</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">Hi Dan, all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Just my personal view: the that’s how I always interpreted the statement anyway, but I can see how this could be misinterpreted. Hence, adding the clarification is IMHO a good move.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Just my 2c,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Martin</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">On 29. Nov 2017, at 11:07, HOLMES Daniel <<a href="mailto:d.holmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">d.holmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-8863473552613535937Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="h5">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">
Hi Persistence WG members,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We have a suggested change to the wording of the MPI Standard text that we will propose to the MPI Forum next week regarding persistent collective operations.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Once initialized,<br class="">
persistent collective operations can be started in any order<br class="">
independently of initialization order<br class="">
+and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Most of this sentence already appears in our proposed text - the suggestion is to add the line beginning with “+”.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think this is a good suggestion - we should make this point absolutely clear. We should word-smith the exact phrase (e.g. during the meeting later today?) and then include it in our formal reading next week by holding a “no-no” vote.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
</div>
<div class="">Dan.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="m_-8863473552613535937Apple-interchange-newline">
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<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><b class="">From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">KAWASHIMA Takahiro <<a href="mailto:notifications@github.com" target="_blank" class="">notifications@github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px" class="">
<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><b class="">Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><b class="">Re: [mpi-forum/mpi-standard] Persistent collectives 2017 (#29)</b><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px" class="">
<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><b class="">Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">29 November 2017 at 06:09:20 GMT<br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px" class="">
<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><b class="">To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">mpi-forum/mpi-standard <<a href="mailto:mpi-standard@noreply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">mpi-standard@noreply.github.<wbr class="">com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px" class="">
<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><b class="">Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Dan Holmes <<a href="mailto:dholmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">dholmes@epcc.ed.ac.uk</a>>, Mention <<a href="mailto:mention@noreply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">mention@noreply.github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""><b class="">Reply-To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:-webkit-system-font,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">mpi-forum/mpi-standard <<a href="mailto:reply+00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f0842808776a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf000000011636110f92a169ce0dd58755@reply.github.com" target="_blank" class="">reply+<wbr class="">00c7fc4ac57b95d8d1ec9f08428087<wbr class="">76a6bf83a41aa2b15e92cf00000001<wbr class="">1636110f92a169ce0dd58755@<wbr class="">reply.github.com</a>><br class="">
</span></div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><p class=""><a href="https://github.com/dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk" class="m_-8863473552613535937user-mention" target="_blank">@dholmes-epcc-ed-ac-uk</a>,<br class="">
With the existing text, I think many people can understand that it is saying (at least) "<em class="">requests can be started using
<code class="">MPI_START</code> or <code class="">MPI_STARTALL</code> in any order independently of initialization order</em>", because of analogy to the point-to-point communication. So I think your suggested text is unnecessary.<br class="">
But some people may <em class="">not</em> understand that it is also saying "<em class="">the order of starting requests can differ among ranks in the communicator</em>", because (1) the matching rule for persistent collective operations is different from the
matching rule for point-to-point communication so that analogy to the point-to-point communication is not applied and (2) the order of nonblocking collective calls must be same among ranks in the communicator.</p><p class="">How about the sentence below? I'm not good at English. Please correct it if it is not good.</p>
<blockquote class=""><p class="">Once initialized,<br class="">
persistent collective operations can be started in any order<br class="">
independently of initialization order<br class="">
and the order can differ among ranks in the communicator</p>
</blockquote><p class="">If anyone else thinks the existing text is sufficient, I won't request the change. Probably my English reading skill is low.</p><p style="font-size:small;color:#666" class="">—<br class="">
You are receiving this because you were mentioned.<br class="">
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</blockquote>
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<br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class="">Anthony Skjellum, PhD<br class=""><a href="mailto:skjellum@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">skjellum@gmail.com</a><br class="">Cell: +1-205-807-4968<div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div>
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