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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115354920-13012010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks. Do we know any active app that uses the JOIN still?
If none, why the heck keep it afloat?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115354920-13012010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=115354920-13012010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I meant CANCEL in all its varieties. Again, how many
apps cannot live without it?</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard
Treumann<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:48 PM<BR><B>To:</B> MPI
3.0 Fault Tolerance and Dynamic Process Control working Group<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Mpi3-ft] Nonblocking Process Creation and Management<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Why would JOIN be any less useful today than in the past? Why would you want
to deprecate it? It is a trivial bootstrap for the simplest form of
ACCEPT/CONNECT. It just hides the ACCEPT and CONNECT operations and lets the
user handle the complexity of identifying the two end points any way he likes.
<BR><BR>I never felt JOIN was needed very badly but it went in as a "what the
heck" decision and I do not see that anything has changed.<BR><BR>Is it because
IJOIN seems more difficult than IACCEPT and ICONNECT in some way?<BR><BR>When
you say CANCEL should be deprecated, do you mean MPI_Cancel of an outstanding
ISEND/IRECV request or something else?<BR><BR>Dick Treumann - MPI Team <BR>IBM
Systems & Technology Group<BR>Dept X2ZA / MS P963 -- 2455 South Road --
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601<BR>Tele (845) 433-7846 Fax (845) 433-8363<BR><BR><BR><IMG
height=16
alt='Inactive hide details for "Supalov, Alexander" ---01/13/2010 02:53:18 PM---Thanks. I meant the JOIN per se as a way of establis'
src="cid:115354920@13012010-134E" width=16 border=0><FONT
color=#424282>"Supalov, Alexander" ---01/13/2010 02:53:18 PM---Thanks. I meant
the JOIN per se as a way of establishing the communicator. Do we need that
still? Wh</FONT><BR><BR>
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<TD width="1%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=96 border=0><BR><FONT color=#5f5f5f size=2>From:</FONT></TD>
<TD width="100%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=1 border=0><BR><FONT size=2>"Supalov, Alexander"
<alexander.supalov@intel.com></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD width="1%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=96 border=0><BR><FONT color=#5f5f5f size=2>To:</FONT></TD>
<TD width="100%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=1 border=0><BR><FONT size=2>"MPI 3.0 Fault Tolerance and Dynamic
Process Control working Group"
<mpi3-ft@lists.mpi-forum.org></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD width="1%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=96 border=0><BR><FONT color=#5f5f5f size=2>Date:</FONT></TD>
<TD width="100%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=1 border=0><BR><FONT size=2>01/13/2010 02:53 PM</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD width="1%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=96 border=0><BR><FONT color=#5f5f5f size=2>Subject:</FONT></TD>
<TD width="100%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=1 border=0><BR><FONT size=2>Re: [Mpi3-ft] Nonblocking Process
Creation and Management</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD width="1%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=96 border=0><BR><FONT color=#5f5f5f size=2>Sent by:</FONT></TD>
<TD width="100%"><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:115354920@13012010-1355"
width=1 border=0><BR><FONT
size=2>mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<HR style="COLOR: #8091a5" align=left width="100%" noShade SIZE=2>
<BR><BR><BR><TT>Thanks. I meant the JOIN per se as a way of establishing the
communicator. Do we need that still? What practically relevant cases can be
provided to justify its continuing existence? If there are none, we should
rather deprecate the JOIN and drop the IJOIN.<BR><BR>Good point on the
CANCEL.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [</TT><TT><A
href="mailto:mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org">mailto:mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</A></TT><TT>]
On Behalf Of Josh Hursey<BR>Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:25 PM<BR>To: MPI
3.0 Fault Tolerance and Dynamic Process Control working Group<BR>Subject: Re:
[Mpi3-ft] Nonblocking Process Creation and Management<BR><BR>Since join() does a
handshake to create the new communicator, it <BR>should be delayed by the
remote side of the protocol. A nonblocking <BR>version would allow the
application to possibly do other computation <BR>while waiting for the
remote side.<BR><BR>As far as Cancel, I have been thinking that it might be
useful for <BR>Accept and Connect. Though with the normal problems of
Cancel, I don't <BR>know how to really specify it. I want to look into it
a bit more <BR>before next week to see if anything useful can be said of
using Cancel <BR>with Accept/Connect.<BR><BR>-- Josh<BR><BR>On Jan 13,
2010, at 2:01 PM, Supalov, Alexander wrote:<BR><BR>> Hi,<BR>><BR>> Do
we really need the IJOIN thing? I think the JOIN itself should be <BR>>
deprecated. Just as CANCEL, by the way.<BR>><BR>> Best
regards.<BR>><BR>> Alexander<BR>><BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From: mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [</TT><TT><A
href="mailto:mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org">mailto:mpi3-ft-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</A></TT><TT> <BR>>
] On Behalf Of Josh Hursey<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:04
PM<BR>> To: MPI 3.0 Fault Tolerance and Dynamic Process Control working
Group<BR>> Subject: [Mpi3-ft] Nonblocking Process Creation and
Management<BR>><BR>> I extended and cleaned up the Nonblocking Process
Creation and<BR>> Management proposal on the wiki:<BR>>
</TT><TT><A
href="https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/wiki/Async-proc-mgmt">https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/wiki/Async-proc-mgmt</A></TT><TT><BR>><BR>>
I added the rest of the nonblocking interface proposals, and touched<BR>> up
some of the language. I do not have an implementation yet, but will<BR>> work
on that next. There are a few items that I need to refine a bit<BR>> still
(e.g., MPI_Cancel, mixing of blocking and nonblocking), but this<BR>> should
give us a foundation to start from.<BR>><BR>> I would like to talk about
this next week during our working group<BR>> slot at the MPI Forum
meeting.<BR>><BR>> Let me know what you think, and if you see any
problems.<BR>><BR>> Thanks,<BR>> Josh<BR>><BR>>
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