<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Bill Long <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:longb@cray.com" target="_blank">longb@cray.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=""><br>
On Nov 9, 2015, at 8:24 AM, Jeff Hammond <<a href="mailto:jeff.science@gmail.com">jeff.science@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Did you read the ticket? We need this for the same reason MPI_Init() takes argc/argv even though C main() already has them.<br>
<br>
</span>But the C standard does not implicitly assume every program is parallel.<br>
<span class=""><br></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Correct. Nor can MPI assume that argc/argv will magically appear on the compute nodes when the job is launched from somewhere else.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">
><br>
> While it may be true that process managers are magically fixing argc/argv, this is not guaranteed by any standard.<br>
<br>
</span>The Fortran standard is intentionally vague to allow for environments where there is no command line, but rather (for example) the code starts executing by clicking a graphic button on the screen. The standard is likely to not include specific words about program launchers that might turn into bit rot in the future. If your favorite compiler returns the launcher text as part of the command line, complain.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Complaining is fun, but has no teeth without a standard. Many vendors are quite strict about standards and reject feature requests that improve user experience if they lack justification in a standard. I can cite numerous vendors here...</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
While the new proposed routines are trivial to implement (assuming they have the same arguments as the corresponding Fortran ones), they add to one of MPI’s most serious flaws - way to many routines already.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>As you say, they are trivial to implement. The size of the standard is an irrelevant argument. Users don't read what they don't need to read and users shouldn't be reading the spec most of the time anyways.</div><div><br></div><div>Jeff</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Cheers,<br>
Bill<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
><br>
> Jeff<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Bill Long <<a href="mailto:longb@cray.com">longb@cray.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi Jeff,<br>
><br>
> I don’t see the value of this. The Fortran intrinsics GET_COMMAND and friends should already do what you want. Fortran programs are now presumed parallel. The intrinsics should know how to strip off the “launcher” part of the command line. At least that is how the Cray versions have worked from the beginning. Experiments are in order for other vendors, as a check.<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Bill<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Nov 9, 2015, at 8:13 AM, Jeff Hammond <<a href="mailto:jeff.science@gmail.com">jeff.science@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > we did a lot of work on <a href="https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/351" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/351</a>. do we intend to move forward this for MPI 4+? if yes, we need to migrate the trac ticket to a github issue.<br>
> ><br>
> > jeff<br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Jeff Hammond<br>
> > <a href="mailto:jeff.science@gmail.com">jeff.science@gmail.com</a><br>
> > <a href="http://jeffhammond.github.io/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://jeffhammond.github.io/</a><br>
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><br>
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> --<br>
> Jeff Hammond<br>
> <a href="mailto:jeff.science@gmail.com">jeff.science@gmail.com</a><br>
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Fortran Technical Support & voice: 651-605-9024<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature">Jeff Hammond<br><a href="mailto:jeff.science@gmail.com" target="_blank">jeff.science@gmail.com</a><br><a href="http://jeffhammond.github.io/" target="_blank">http://jeffhammond.github.io/</a></div>
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