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<p><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Jeff, This is inappropriate. Especially targeting IBM like that, and on a public mailing list. Ticket 281 has had plenty of discussions and passed votes. This is/was a Forum decision. The fact that I agreed with it, and volunteered to do a lot of the work, is why I am voicing my opinion on this. We (the Forum) have said all along that anyone that has a better design for C++ bindings should bring that forward and make a proposal. Getting rid of the current, often considered "broken", C++ bindings is a good way to ensure any future proposal is free to change the design.</font><br>
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<font size="2" face="sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
Douglas Miller BlueGene Messaging Development<br>
IBM Corp., Rochester, MN USA Bldg 030-2 A401<br>
dougmill@us.ibm.com Douglas Miller/Rochester/IBM</font><br>
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<img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=09BBF0BADFFA17A88f9e8a93df938@us.ibm.com" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Jeff Hammond ---06/26/2012 02:09:59 PM---Jeff Hammond <jhammond@alcf.anl.gov>"><font size="2" color="#424282" face="sans-serif">Jeff Hammond ---06/26/2012 02:09:59 PM---Jeff Hammond <jhammond@alcf.anl.gov></font><br>
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<ul style="padding-left: 72pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><b>Jeff Hammond <jhammond@alcf.anl.gov></b></font><font size="1" face="sans-serif"> </font><br>
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<p><font size="1" face="sans-serif">06/26/2012 01:57 PM</font>
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<ul style="padding-left: 7pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [Mpi-forum] C++ types inaccessible after #281</font></ul>
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<font size="3" face="serif">Why do you want to make it so damn hard for anyone to use MPI in C++ codes? You don't even have to do anything to support C++ because BG-MPI is based upon MPICH2.</font><br>
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Can't we just for once try to take user needs into consideration instead of trying to reduce the workload of implementers as much as possible?</font><br>
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<font size="3" face="serif">Users matter. In IBM land, they are called customers. I assure you that some of your largest customers care a great deal about using MPI within C++. </font><br>
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<font size="3" face="serif">You're going out of your way to try and punish your customers for using C++. Can't you just leave them alone? Maybe we - the customers - need to leave IBM alone.</font><br>
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<font size="3" face="serif">Jeff<br>
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<font size="3" face="serif">On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Douglas Miller <</font><a href="mailto:dougmill@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>dougmill@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif">> wrote:</font>
<ul style="padding-left: 9pt"><font size="3" face="sans-serif">I think the issue is just that how can a standard that does not specify how C++ fits into things (after ticket 281) then go on to define a data type in terms of C++ types? If there is a need for a C (not C++) complex datatype, that should be a new proposal. But that datatype should not, in my opinion, be defined in terms of something like std::complex. If a platform does not support something like C99 complex types, then it will have to implement complex types and ops itself, or be incomplete.</font>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Douglas Miller BlueGene Messaging Development<br>
IBM Corp., Rochester, MN USA Bldg 030-2 A401</font><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="sans-serif"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="mailto:dougmill@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="sans-serif"><u>dougmill@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="sans-serif"> Douglas Miller/Rochester/IBM</font><font size="3" face="serif"><br>
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<img src="cid:2__=09BBF0BADFFA17A88f9e8a93df938@us.ibm.com" width="16" height="16" alt="Inactive hide details for Jeff Hammond ---06/26/2012 12:31:52 PM---Jeff Hammond <jhammond@alcf.anl.gov>"><font size="3" color="#424282" face="sans-serif">Jeff Hammond ---06/26/2012 12:31:52 PM---Jeff Hammond <</font><a href="mailto:jhammond@alcf.anl.gov" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="sans-serif"><u>jhammond@alcf.anl.gov</u></font></a><font size="3" color="#424282" face="sans-serif">></font><font size="3" face="serif"><br>
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<p><font size="1" face="sans-serif">06/26/2012 12:21 PM</font></ul>
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<ul style="padding-left: 36pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [Mpi-forum] C++ types inaccessible after #281</font></ul>
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as far as i'm concerned, these types are only valid with the C bindings when a C++ compiler is used. does that solve it?<br>
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jeff<br>
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On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Douglas Miller <</font><a href="mailto:dougmill@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>dougmill@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif">> wrote: </font>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt"><font size="3" face="sans-serif">I've got to raise a concern here. If we start defining MPI datatypes to be C++ types then how will an implementation support that with only a C compiler? I thought the point of 281 was to eradicate C++ from the standard (and start over later if C++ was to be defined in the standard). </font><font size="3" face="serif"><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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IBM Corp., Rochester, MN USA Bldg 030-2 A401</font><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u><br>
</u></font><a href="mailto:dougmill@us.ibm.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="sans-serif"><u>dougmill@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="sans-serif"> Douglas Miller/Rochester/IBM</font><font size="3" face="serif"><br>
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<p><font size="1" face="sans-serif">06/26/2012 11:14 AM</font><font size="3" face="serif"> </font></ul>
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<ul style="padding-left: 36pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [Mpi-forum] C++ types inaccessible after #281</font></ul>
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On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Jeff Squyres <</font><a href="mailto:jsquyres@cisco.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>jsquyres@cisco.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif">> wrote: </font>
<ul style="padding-left: 36pt"><font size="3" face="serif">There are a few C++-specific datatypes for which it would be worth introducing new C datatypes (e.g., MPI_CXX_COMPLEX). It's too bad that no one realized this until now, because this won't make the MPI-3 deadline. But it could be part of MPI-3.1 or errata, or some such.</font></ul>
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Two people in offline discussions have suggested that C bindings to the std::complex types (I'm not aware of anything else that #281 will lose) might qualify as ticket 0.</font><tt><font size="3">_______________________________________________<br>
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