<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:rtc="http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:Repl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" xmlns:mt="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ppda="http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial>
+1
<br>
<br>-jms
<br>Sent from my PDA. No type good.</font></p>
<p><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
<font face=Tahoma size=2>
<b>From</b>: mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org <mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org>
<br><b>To</b>: Main MPI Forum mailing list <mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org>
<br><b>Sent</b>: Mon Nov 16 11:38:51 2009<br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [Mpi-forum] MPI user survey
<br></font></p>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The important thing to discern is whether we have any user base
that wants that second interface.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Vinod
tipparaju<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 16, 2009 8:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mpi-forum] MPI user survey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I
am concerned with the way this question is worded. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I
am only concerned for a general user that is doing this survey. I think this
question seems to suggest that MPI-3 RMA will finally be defined in such a way
that either a) rich RMA feature set, or b) good message rate, is
utimately possible. I disagree with this completely. RMA for MPI-3 must target
and deliver both, even if we have to have two interfaces for RMA (after Keith
and Brian do their investigation and conclude that having a second interface is
a must). I think we cannot get away with an interface with rich feature set
that prevents high-message rate or low latency just because 95% of users who
take the survey say they only care about rich feature set. Alternatively, if we
don't care what users say and still are going to deliver an RMA specification
that gives both, why are we asking this question?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Note
that I (as a participant in RMA standardization meetings) understand that
the intention of this question may be to see what people care more about
--latency/message-rate or rich feature set. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I
cannot see how this can be worded to address all the concerns with out
including 1/2 a page of explanation. So I think we should hold-off on including
this question in the survey for now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Vinod.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>--<br>
Vinod Tipparaju ^ http://ft.ornl.gov/~vinod ^ 1-865-241-1802<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> From: jsquyres@cisco.com<br>
> To: mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org<br>
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:39:09 -0800<br>
> Subject: Re: [Mpi-forum] MPI user survey<br>
> <br>
> On Nov 16, 2009, at 7:28 AM, Supalov, Alexander wrote:<br>
> <br>
> > Why don't we ask directly: do you want to have subsets in MPI-3 to <br>
> > trade feature richness for performance if you care?<br>
> ><br>
> <br>
> We didn't ask about subsets at all because the WG is "on hold".
Do <br>
> you want to introduce a new question? If so, can you suggest the <br>
> specific wording?<br>
> <br>
> Note that Keith suggested an improved wording for the RMA question <br>
> (this was buried in my reply to Dick):<br>
> <br>
> "MPI one-sided communication performance (e.g., message rate and <br>
> latency) is more important to me than supporting a rich remote memory <br>
> access (RMA) feature set (e.g., communicators, datatypes)."<br>
> <br>
> Jeff H. replied to me off-list that he liked this better than his <br>
> suggestion. Does anyone else have any suggestions / comments on this <br>
> one?<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Jeff Squyres<br>
> jsquyres@cisco.com<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> mpi-forum mailing list<br>
> mpi-forum@lists.mpi-forum.org<br>
> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>