<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">This is an example of why we have two votes - to give everyone a chance to take a second look at the issues. I'll note that the 17-10 (counting no's and abstains together) is worrisome; while a majority vote is the rule, a good standard will make a compelling argument for each feature. <div><br></div><div>The process here would normally be to have a debate and then the second vote. However, for MPI 2.2, we have the additional requirements of limited scope of change to implementations - we didn't define what that meant precisely (and that is a good thing), but there is a strong argument that limited scope of change would require at least a majority of implementations to agree that the change is minor. <br><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div><br><div><div>On May 27, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Erez Haba wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi all, I’m not really sure how to respond to this email. I will just note that this proposal has passed 1<sup>st</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>vote last September with the following results.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><span>4.<span style="font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">Vote topic:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">MPI-2.2 const for C bindings, 1st vote:</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellpadding="0" style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: right; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">YES:</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: center; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">17<o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: right; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">NO:</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: center; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">4<o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: right; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">ABSTAIN:</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: center; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">6<o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: right; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">MISSED:</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: center; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">0<o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: right; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; ">Result:</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></td><td valign="top" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; padding-top: 2.25pt; padding-right: 2.25pt; padding-bottom: 2.25pt; padding-left: 2.25pt; background-position: initial initial; "><div style="text-align: center; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 187, 0); ">Ballot passed</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a href="http://meetings.mpi-forum.org/secretary/2008/09/votes.php" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://meetings.mpi-forum.org/secretary/2008/09/votes.php</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">since then we decided to postpone the 1<sup>st</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>vote to add very few minor correction to ticket #46 (the original proposal) and thus created ticket #140.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I believe that all the points you mention below have been discussed in the forum meeting(s).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">.Erez<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:mpi-forum-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Treumann<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:53 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Main MPI Forum mailing list<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mpi-22@lists.mpi-forum.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mpi-22@lists.mpi-forum.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Mpi-forum] The const proposal - Ticket 140<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">All -</span></tt><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><br><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; ">The signatories of this letter represent the majority of MPI implementors participating in the MPI Forum. We are concerned that proposal #140 ("Add const Keyword to the C bindings") has a number of issues which suggest delaying to MPI-3 would be appropriate.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></tt></span><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">In particular, the proposal:</span></tt><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><br><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; ">- Is likely to pass a simple majority vote, but does not carry the support of the majority of MPI implementors, suggesting consensus has not been reached.</tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; ">- Changes 90+ MPI API interfaces, which is not a "trivial" change and therefore does not meet the intent of the MPI-2.2 process.</tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; ">- Is not needed to fix any serious bug in the standard text or to solve an issue that cannot easily be avoided by the MPI application.</tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; ">- Does not offer any demonstrable optimization opportunities for implementation or application, but may constrain future implementation opportunities.</tt><br><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; ">Therefore, we ask for your assistance in deferring proposal #140 to the MPI-3 process, where more time can be spent assessing its impact.</tt></span><br><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Thank you,</span></tt><br><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- Cisco: Jeff Squires</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- Intel: Alexander Supalov & Keith Underwood</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- Sandia: Brian Barrett</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- IBM: Richard Treumann</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- QLogic: Avneesh Pant</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- UTenn: George Bosilca</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- HP: David George Solt</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- UHouston: Edgar Gabriel</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- Myricom: Patrick Geoffray</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- ORNL: Richard Graham</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- Sun: Terry Dontje</span></tt><br><tt style="font-family: 'Courier New'; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">- NEC: Hubert Ritzdorf & Jesper Traeff</span></tt><br><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><br><br></span><br>Dick Treumann - MPI Team<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>IBM Systems & Technology Group<br>Dept X2ZA / MS P963 -- 2455 South Road -- Poughkeepsie, NY 12601<br>Tele (845) 433-7846 Fax (845) 433-8363<o:p></o:p></p><span><ATT00001.txt></span></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>William Gropp</div><div>Deputy Director for Research</div><div>Institute for Advanced Computing Applications and Technologies</div><div>Paul and Cynthia Saylor Professor of Computer Science</div><div>University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></div></div></body></html>