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<BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Dear Erez,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Thank you. I reviewed the text and found
that further polishing of its textual aspects should be
suspended until the substance is clarified. I put a comment to this effect
into the ticket, as well as into the dependent ticket #46. In my opinion, both
tickets are not yet ready to go into the standard and should go into another
round of contemplation of their possible repercussions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In both cases presumed application friendliness is
traded for less freedom of implementation. Application developers who disregard
the standard now will most likely continue to do this in the future, possibly in
some other way. Restricting the freedom of implementation to make their life
easier does not seem to be an attractive proposition to me.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>If any of the issues identified so far, or comparable
issues we cannot fathom at the moment, surface up in one of the future HPC
platforms and hinder MPI adoption or transition to MPI-2.2 there, we will have
done disservice both to the MPI standard and to the community. I hope this will
bear on the minds of those who're going to vote on these two items at the
meeting.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Best regards.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=344175323-05122008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Alexander</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Erez
Haba<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:28 AM<BR><B>To:</B> MPI
2.2<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer Access (ticket
#45)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dear
Alexander,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">It
is okay and encouraged for people to comment and argue on the proposals. You can
add your comments to the ticket arguing your important points. The forum
then consider that various points and vote on the
proposal.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">However
for the voting process we need people to review the text and confirm that it
does not conflict with the standard and it is reasonable (from language pov) to
be included in the standard.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
we are willing to review the text and state that it valid for the standard, that
would be great. If you have any comments on the text please send them to
me.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">.Erez<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Supalov, Alexander<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 05, 2008
2:26 PM<BR><B>To:</B> MPI 2.2<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mpi-22] please review -
Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Dear
Erez,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Thank
you. I'm afraid I would need to have it explained in more detail why review
may not include arguments on the substance. If something in the
proposal makes one think that the proposed matter may be detrimental to the MPI
standard and its implementations, I consider it one's duty to point this
out.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Following
up on your reply: the segfault situation you described will make an MPI
compliant program break. Thus, the implementation will have to keep the send
buffer mapped into the sending process address space. This is a limitation on
the MPI implementation that should be taken into account during the
voting.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Another
possibility that has been pointed out earlier was that the proposed change
disallows byte swap and other send buffer conversions to be done in place. At
least one historical MPI implementation was doing this to a great avail. Who
knows what is going to happen in the future?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Best
regards.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Alexander</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Erez Haba<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 05, 2008 11:18
PM<BR><B>To:</B> MPI 2.2<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mpi-22] please review - Send
Buffer Access (ticket #45)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
think that the idea is for the reviewers to check the text for any mistakes and
compatibility with the existing text, rather than check for the validity of the
proposal. The later as I recall is left for the MPI forum
assembly.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">As
for your question, I’m sure that you can answer it yourself. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> If
the memory is still also mapped to the original process (as with shared memory)
that everything is fine. If the memory is removed from the original process,
than the app will get an access-violation fault.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">(if
this system works on a page boundary, to take this action it needs to make sure
that there are no other allocation on the same page)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">.Erez<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Supalov, Alexander<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 05, 2008
2:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B> MPI 2.2<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mpi-22] please review -
Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I'd like
to review this proposal. Let's consider the following
scenario:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">- In the
MPI_Isend, MPI maps the send buffer into the address space of the receiving
process.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">- In the
matching MPI_Recv, the receiving process makes a copy of the mapped send buffer
into the receive buffer.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">- Once
the copy is complete, the send buffer is mapped back into the sender address
space during the wait/test call.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">What
will happen one tries to access the send buffer in
between?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Best
regards.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Alexander</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Erez Haba<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 05, 2008 10:48
PM<BR><B>To:</B> MPI 2.2<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer
Access (ticket #45)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">This proposal has
passed 1</SPAN><SUP><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">st</SPAN></SUP><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> voting and needs
reviewers. We need 3 <U>volunteers</U> to sign-off on this proposal, plus
the 3 chapter authors to sign-off on the text.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">The Chapter Authors
for<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Chapter 3:
Point-to-Point Communication<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Chapter 5:
Collective Communication<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Chapter 11:
One-Sided Communication<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Please add a
comment to the ticket saying that you reviewed the proposal, or please send me
your comments.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Send Buffer Access:
<A
href="https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/45">https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/45</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">.Erez<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV><PRE>---------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Intel GmbH<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Dornacher Strasse 1<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>VAT Registration No.: DE129385895<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>---------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Intel GmbH<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Dornacher Strasse 1<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr.<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>VAT Registration No.: DE129385895<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE><o:p> </o:p></PRE><PRE>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.<o:p></o:p></PRE></DIV><pre>---------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel GmbH
Dornacher Strasse 1
85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer
Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr.
VAT Registration No.: DE129385895
Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
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