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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks Alexander,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I respectfully decline your proposal to suspend the review of
these tickets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I don’t see any specific reference wrt text in your
comments; and you don’t bring any new issue that has not been discussed
before the 1<sup>st</sup> voting. Thus I don’t see any reason to
suspend their review.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>.Erez<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Supalov,
Alexander<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 05, 2008 4:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> MPI 2.2<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Dear Erez,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Thank you. I reviewed the text and found that further
polishing of its textual aspects should be suspended until the
substance is clarified. I put a comment to this effect into the ticket, as well
as into the dependent ticket #46. In my opinion, both tickets are not yet ready
to go into the standard and should go into another round of contemplation of
their possible repercussions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>In both cases presumed application friendliness is traded for
less freedom of implementation. Application developers who disregard the
standard now will most likely continue to do this in the future, possibly in
some other way. Restricting the freedom of implementation to make their life
easier does not seem to be an attractive proposition to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>If any of the issues identified so far, or comparable issues we
cannot fathom at the moment, surface up in one of the future HPC platforms and
hinder MPI adoption or transition to MPI-2.2 there, we will have done
disservice both to the MPI standard and to the community. I hope this will bear
on the minds of those who're going to vote on these two items at the
meeting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Best regards.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erez Haba<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> MPI 2.2<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dear Alexander,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is okay and encouraged for people to comment and argue on the
proposals. You can add your comments to the ticket arguing your important
points. The forum then consider that various points and vote on the
proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>However for the voting process we need people to review the text
and confirm that it does not conflict with the standard and it is reasonable
(from language pov) to be included in the standard.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If we are willing to review the text and state that it valid for
the standard, that would be great. If you have any comments on the text please
send them to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>.Erez<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Supalov, Alexander<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 05, 2008 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> MPI 2.2<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Dear Erez,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Thank you. I'm afraid I would need to have it explained in
more detail why review may not include arguments on the substance. If
something in the proposal makes one think that the proposed matter may be
detrimental to the MPI standard and its implementations, I consider it one's
duty to point this out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Following up on your reply: the segfault situation you described
will make an MPI compliant program break. Thus, the implementation will have to
keep the send buffer mapped into the sending process address space. This is a
limitation on the MPI implementation that should be taken into account during
the voting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Another possibility that has been pointed out earlier was that the
proposed change disallows byte swap and other send buffer conversions to be
done in place. At least one historical MPI implementation was doing this to a
great avail. Who knows what is going to happen in the future?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Best regards.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erez Haba<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 05, 2008 11:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> MPI 2.2<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think that the idea is for the reviewers to check the text for
any mistakes and compatibility with the existing text, rather than check for
the validity of the proposal. The later as I recall is left for the MPI forum
assembly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As for your question, I’m sure that you can answer it
yourself. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> If the memory is still also mapped to the original process (as
with shared memory) that everything is fine. If the memory is removed from the
original process, than the app will get an access-violation fault.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>(if this system works on a page boundary, to take this action it
needs to make sure that there are no other allocation on the same page)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>.Erez<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Supalov, Alexander<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 05, 2008 2:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> MPI 2.2<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>I'd like to review this proposal. Let's consider the following
scenario:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>- In the MPI_Isend, MPI maps the send buffer into the address space
of the receiving process.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>- In the matching MPI_Recv, the receiving process makes a copy of
the mapped send buffer into the receive buffer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>- Once the copy is complete, the send buffer is mapped back into
the sender address space during the wait/test call.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>What will happen one tries to access the send buffer in between?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Best regards.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erez Haba<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 05, 2008 10:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> MPI 2.2<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Mpi-22] please review - Send Buffer Access (ticket #45)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>This
proposal has passed 1</span><sup><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>st</span></sup><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> voting and needs
reviewers. We need 3 <u>volunteers</u> to sign-off on this proposal, plus
the 3 chapter authors to sign-off on the text.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The
Chapter Authors for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Chapter
3: Point-to-Point Communication<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Chapter
5: Collective Communication<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Chapter
11: One-Sided Communication<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Please
add a comment to the ticket saying that you reviewed the proposal, or please
send me your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Send
Buffer Access: <a href="https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/45">https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/45</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>.Erez<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre>---------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Intel GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Dornacher Strasse 1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>VAT Registration No.: DE129385895<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>---------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Intel GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Dornacher Strasse 1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>VAT Registration No.: DE129385895<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>---------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Intel GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Dornacher Strasse 1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>VAT Registration No.: DE129385895<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.<o:p></o:p></pre></div>
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