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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Dear Dick,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Thank you. We can actually introduce what you propose,
possibly with a query function to make it still easier to live with, as early as
in MPI 2.2, as a subset precursor. Judging by the discussion in Chicago, subsets
may not need much more than that in the end, possibly with a little more flags
and semantics added in MPI-3.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The reservation against 32- (or for that matter, 64-) bit
limitation is the only one I have at the moment. Not being able to attach
assertions to communicators, etc. may be missed by some advanced programmers,
but here we need to be pragmatic: who will ever want to go that
deep?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Best regards.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=830202317-05052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Alexander</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org
[mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard
Treumann<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 05, 2008 7:18 PM<BR><B>To:</B> MPI
2.2<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Mpi-22] mpi-22 Digest, Vol 2, Issue
7<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Hi Alexander <BR><BR>I have no objection to citing my "assertions" proposal
in the subsetting discussions. I do want to keep it clear that this proposal is
intended to be as simple as practical to <B>implement, exploit</B> and<B> live
with</B>.<BR><BR>"Live with" applies to 3rd party library authors or anyone else
who must write MPI code but does not know and control the structure of the
entire application. That guy must "live with" the decisions made by whoever
coded the MPI_INIT piece. "Live with" also applies to whoever must test or
certify a specific MPI implementation.<BR><BR>Thanks - Dick <BR><BR>Dick
Treumann - MPI Team/TCEM <BR>IBM Systems & Technology Group<BR>Dept 0lva /
MS P963 -- 2455 South Road -- Poughkeepsie, NY 12601<BR>Tele (845) 433-7846 Fax
(845) 433-8363<BR><BR><IMG height=16
alt='Inactive hide details for "Supalov, Alexander" <alexander.supalov@intel.com>'
src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB1" width=16 border=0>"Supalov, Alexander"
<alexander.supalov@intel.com><BR><BR><BR>
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<UL><B><FONT size=2>"Supalov, Alexander"
<alexander.supalov@intel.com></FONT></B><FONT size=2>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Sent by:
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</FONT>
<P><FONT size=2>04/26/2008 04:03 AM</FONT>
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<DIV align=center><FONT size=2>Please respond to<BR>"MPI
2.2"
<mpi-22@lists.mpi-forum.org></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P></UL></UL></UL></UL></TD>
<TD width="60%">
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<TD width="1%"><IMG height=1 alt=""
src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB8" width=58 border=0><BR>
<DIV align=right><FONT size=2>To</FONT></DIV></TD>
<TD width="100%"><IMG height=1 alt=""
src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB8" width=1 border=0><BR><FONT
size=2>"MPI 2.2" <mpi-22@lists.mpi-forum.org></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD width="1%"><IMG height=1 alt=""
src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB8" width=58 border=0><BR>
<DIV align=right><FONT size=2>cc</FONT></DIV></TD>
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src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB8" width=1 border=0><BR></TD></TR>
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<DIV align=right><FONT size=2>Subject</FONT></DIV></TD>
<TD width="100%"><IMG height=1 alt=""
src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB8" width=1 border=0><BR><FONT
size=2>Re: [Mpi-22] mpi-22 Digest, Vol 2, Issue
7</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD width=58><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB8"
width=1 border=0></TD>
<TD width=336><IMG height=1 alt="" src="cid:830202317@05052008-1DB8"
width=1 border=0></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>Dear Dick,</FONT><BR><FONT size=4></FONT><BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff>Thank you. Would you mind if I cite your proposal in
the subsets discussion? Yours looks like a good alternative to the thinking of
some of us that subsets might be very rich and mutable, and to Jeff's proposal
on hints I've already cited there with his permission.</FONT><BR><FONT
size=4></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Best regards.</FONT><BR><FONT
size=4></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Alexander</FONT><BR><BR>
<HR align=left width="100%" SIZE=2>
<B><FONT face=Tahoma>From:</FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma>
mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org [<A
href="mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org">mailto:mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org</A>]
</FONT><B><FONT face=Tahoma>On Behalf Of </FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma>Richard
Treumann</FONT><B><FONT face=Tahoma><BR>Sent:</FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma>
Thursday, April 24, 2008 6:16 PM</FONT><B><FONT
face=Tahoma><BR>To:</FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma> MPI 2.2</FONT><B><FONT
face=Tahoma><BR>Subject:</FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma> Re: [Mpi-22] mpi-22
Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7</FONT><FONT size=4><BR></FONT>
<P><FONT size=4>Dick Treumann - MPI Team/TCEM <BR>IBM Systems & Technology
Group<BR>Dept 0lva / MS P963 -- 2455 South Road -- Poughkeepsie, NY
12601<BR>Tele (845) 433-7846 Fax (845) 433-8363<BR><BR></FONT><TT><FONT
size=4><BR>mpi-22-bounces@lists.mpi-forum.org wrote on 04/24/2008 11:33:42
AM:<BR><BR>> Hi,<BR>> <BR>> Note that this is an argument for making
the assertions optional: those<BR>> who don't care don't have to use them.
Those who care should use them<BR>> correctly or else. As usual.<BR>>
<BR>> Best regards.<BR>> <BR>> Alexander <BR>> </FONT></TT><FONT
size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=4><BR>Hi Alexander </FONT></TT><FONT
size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=4><BR>The assertions are optional in this
proposal. If this is added to the MPI standard the minimal impacts (day
one impacts) are:</FONT></TT><FONT size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT
size=4><BR>==<BR>To application writers (none) - MPI_INIT and MPI_INIT_THREAD
still work. MPI_INIT_THREAD_xxx can be<BR>passed 0 (zero) as the assertions bit
vector.</FONT></TT><FONT size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=4><BR>To MPI
Implementors (small) - subroutine MPI_INIT_THREAD_xxx can be a clone of
MPI_INIT_THREAD under the covers. If the Forum decides the query function is for
asking what assertions are being honored, the implementation can just return
"none" to every query. If there is also a query for what assertions have been
made then there are a few more lines of code the implementor must write to
preserve the value so it can be returned(maybe 10 lines)</FONT></TT><FONT
size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=4><BR>Writers of opaque libraries (small) -
call the query function at library init time and if any assertions are found,
issue an error message and kill the job. This is awkward for a library that
wants to support every MPI whether it has implemented the new query function or
not.<BR>==</FONT></TT><FONT size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=4><BR>As MPI
implementations begin to take advantage of assertions there is more work for the
MPI implementor and the library author must begin to think about whether his
customer will be upset if the library simply outlaws all assertions.
</FONT></TT><FONT size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=4><BR>The library author will
never be wrong if he simply forbids assertions forever. If they become valuable
he will feel the pressure to work it out. </FONT></TT><FONT
size=4><BR></FONT><TT><FONT size=4><BR>The MPI implementor will never be wrong
if he adds the API but simply ignores assertions forever. If they become
valuable he will feel the pressure to honor some at least.</FONT></TT>
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